Template talk:Db-meta

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Make db-person more gender-neutral?[edit]

Right now the {{db-person}} template says Note that this applies to an article about the person him/herself, not about his/her books, albums, shows, software, etc. (emphasis mine). The MoS says specifically to avoid using generic he or she, and since there are articles about non-binary people that use singular they, it would make sense to have that reflected here. I'm proposing the wording is changed to themselves and their, respectively. Nowhere in the A7 criteria does it say "him" or "her", which is why I'm proposing it here rather than on WT:CSD. I see that this was recently proposed but rejected, so an alternative could be "... about the individual, not about their books ..." – Frood (talk) 22:57, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Please see this discussion, where I proposed a complete rewording of the text to: "Note that this criterion applies only to articles about people themselves, not about their books, albums, shows, software, etc." There was no further discussion after my proposal. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
I like that as well. That's definitely less awkward than "him/herself" imo. – Frood (talk) 03:56, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
I have made this edit. If I made any mistakes, or if others have objections, feel free to correct them or note them here. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:46, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 9 December 2019[edit]

Replace "as a category that is empty, is not currently in a deletion discussion (or was emptied outside of that process), and is not a category redirect, a disambiguation category, a featured topics category, or a project category that by its nature becomes empty on occasion." with "as a category that is empty, is not currently under discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion (or other such discussions), and is not a disambiguation category, category redirect, featured topics category, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion." Reason: to bring current wording into line with Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#Categories. The current wording suggests that being in a "Categories for Renaming" discussion would not make a category ineligible for C1 deletion. TSventon (talk) 12:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC) TSventon (talk) 12:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

A note for clarity: the template in question is {{db-c1}}. This is the centralized talk page for many speedy deletion templates. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:09, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
@Jonesey95: The template at the beginning of my post does mention Db-c1 and I used the "Change x to y" format suggested in the template. TSventon (talk) 15:38, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:03, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Db-r2 no longer displays?[edit]

While merging a few single-use templates into mainspace, I noticed Template:Db-r2 no longer shows up when I add it the cross-namespace redirect (such as Template:Green Bay Chill roster). I have just been using g6 for now, but does r2 still work even if the template does not show up? Yosemiter (talk) 14:26, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Neither R2 nor G6 applied in the case you mentioned here. Glades12 (talk) 17:52, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 25 December 2019[edit]

Smsanjudharanwiki (talk) 15:23, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

THE LINK paper belongs to M.S.MINU

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the template {{Db-meta}}. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. Izno (talk) 15:24, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

G6: no need for "contest" button, creators can simply remove[edit]

The assumption appears to be that WP:G6 is one of those criteria where it's acceptable for the creator of the page to remove the speedy tag (see for example this discussion from 2011). This has implications for what text is displayed by the template: the text that says creators can't remove the tag and the button that gives the option to contest are absent (examples: {{db-g7}} and {{db-g8}} in contrast to {{db-g10}}). The same should be done for {{db-g6}} as well: if it's generally acceptable for creators to remove it then the template should not say that they can't. I propose that this text be removed. The result will be that the template will again look like it did between this edit in 2011 and this edit in 2015. The 2015 reinstatement was a result of this discussion, where the main concern was that G6 deletions are not always uncontroversial and that there ought to be a way for creators to object to the tag. However, this overlooked the possibility of objecting by simply removing the tag.

I have no opinion on whether the template should explicitly say that creators can indeed remove it. – Uanfala (talk) 14:48, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Ooh, interesting. Yes, I think I agree with the logic of the decision, and regardless, agree that, based on that consensus, the contest button should be removed. The problem is that Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion does not document this exception to a creator removing the tag. That should certainly be addressed. Once that's done, I see merits to both including or not that information in the template. On the one hand, it may be overly instructive, but on the other hand, this is an unusual and probably not widely known exception. --Bsherr (talk) 15:43, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
I have thought this for a long time, but never worked up the courage to say it. Thank you. Glades12 (talk) 17:46, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
I may actually have, but I can't seem to find it. Either way, I agree with Uanfala. Glades12 (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Fully protected request on 25 Jan 2020[edit]

Please make the article fully protected (talk) 05:02, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

223, to request page protection of an article, please see WP:RFPP. Editing this page does nothing for that. — xaosflux Talk 05:02, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

The wording of Template:Db-u2 is inconsistent with the policy[edit]

CSD criterion U2 lists as an exception to the rule redirects from "the previous name of a renamed user".

Template:Db-u2, on the other hand, lists the exception as redirects from "the previous name of a recently renamed user (which should normally be left as a redirect to the new name for a reasonable time)" (emphasis mine).

I propose that the template be changed to match the policy. --kingboyk (talk) 00:40, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

For the record, the wording in the template matched the one on the WP:CSD section until I simplified the wording in WP:CSD. (As discussed on WT:CSD, the word "recently" never accurately described the policy's implementation.) I have no objection to changing the template accordingly, but I do not have the privileges to do so myself. --SoledadKabocha (talk) 03:03, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. I've found that discussion, now archived at Wikipedia_talk:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion/Archive_60#"Reasonable_time"_in_U2.
Since it cannot be too controversial to edit the template to match policy (as opposed to the other way round) I will go ahead and edit the template.
To whom it may concern: if more discussion is necessary, feel free to revert my edit to the template and we can continue to discuss here. --kingboyk (talk) 04:08, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Understood; apologies for laziness in not locating the discussion myself. --SoledadKabocha (talk) 07:25, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
I endorse the change. I never noticed that contradiction myself. Glades12 (talk) 10:45, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

T3 discrepancy?[edit]

I think I've found another discrepancy between policy and template. I have opened discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#T3_discrepancy?. --kingboyk (talk) 09:00, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Green on red[edit]

The issue was already noticed at the bottom of Template_talk:Db-meta/Archive_3, but ignored – we shouldn't use green text on a red background to indicate something more important than almost-black text on the same background. The lower contrast may have an opposite effect.

Proposal: Use the "strong" semantic HTML tag instead; that's what it is for.

Alternative proposal: Use white highlighting and explicitly use black text color to create a stronger contrast.

Alternative proposal: Use both.

~ ToBeFree (talk) 02:57, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

In {{db-g12}}, the text colour is given by the tag <span style="text-align:center; color:green"> and the background colour by the rule
table.ombox-speedy {
    border: 2px solid #b32424;
    background-color: #fee7e6;
Given that green is interpreted by most browsers as the RGB value #008000 (Note to administrators), then according to Snook, the contrast ratio for this is 4.351 which does not meet WCAG 2 AA Compliance, which is our minimum standard. If we darken the green just slightly, to #007D00 (Note to administrators), we get a contrast ratio of 4.522 and so meet WCAG 2 AA Compliance. In order to meet WCAG 2 AAA Compliance we have to go all the way to #005C00 (Note to administrators) with a contrast ratio of 7.028. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:11, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
The bigger issue for these colors is red-green color blindness IMO, not color contrast (though I generally find green on red a horrific combination :). I also prefer <strong> in this application. --Izno (talk) 16:17, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
The WCAG guidelines (and thus Snooks tool also) doesn't just consider contrast in hue; it also considers contrast in saturation and value (see this diagram, also HSL and HSV). So a user with red/green colour blindness would still perceive a difference in lightness: dark text on light background. Note that the <strong>...</strong> element doesn't necessarily cause the text to be rendered as boldface (although it often does), and also that boldface doesn't affect the contrast calculation, although it does alter the threshold for meeting both WCAG 2 AA Compliance and WCAG 2 AAA Compliance - but only when the text is between 14 point and 18 point, and so is not relevant here.
You could ask the people at WT:WCAG for their opinion, alternatively WT:ACCESSIBILITY. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:08, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the research and feedback! Regarding the contrast seen by people with red-green color blindness, my point is that even if legible, the coloring probably has the opposite of the intended effect, raising attention. This can't be fixed even by using the proposed WCAG 2 AAA compliant green. It could be fixed by using a different background and/or font color than green on red. Making a color appear "green" requires a minimum amount of lightness, but the largest contrast could be achieved with a lightness of zero.
Regarding "strong" not necessarily bolding text, that's fine to me – the browser (or screen reader) is supposed to convey the information "This text is important" to the reader. Simply coloring it green, a color perhaps more associated with positive, non-warning messages, might not have this effect.
To maximize visual and semantic impact, on second thought, I now prefer the third of my examples. Count me in for any of them, though. I'll notify the wikiproject, thanks for the tip! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:55, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
Just as an FYI, I already implemented the darker green as a trivial improvement.
I do mostly agree with use of either strong or black text or both. --Izno (talk) 22:55, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Module:Speedy deletion[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgModule:Speedy deletion has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the module's entry on the Templates for discussion page. * Pppery * it has begun... 21:07, 15 March 2020 (UTC)