Talk:Giant eland

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Featured articleGiant eland is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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August 7, 2012Good article nomineeListed
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Comment[edit]

I thought that the western population of the Giant Eland (T. derbianus derbianus was more endangered because only a small population exists, and that the eastern population (T. derbianus gigas was more numerous. All of the Giant Eland I have seen in captivity was of the Eastern form

According to the IUCN Redlist assessments Tragelaphus derbianus ssp. gigas is as near threatened and Tragelaphus derbianus ssp. derbianus is endangered - Rooivalk 03:29, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Giant eland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sasata (talk · contribs) 18:21, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sainsf, I'll review this. Will need a few days to read the article carefully and check sources. Sasata (talk) 18:21, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for undertaking the review! I am also busy currently, but I will be here every few days. Go on with the review! --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 12:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok, here's some comments to get us started (there will be more later). Sasata (talk) 18:35, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

  • savannah and antelope are each twice linked in the lead; in general, the article has overlinking problems. Do you have the "Highlight duplicate links" tool installed? I find it very handy.
I do not have the tool, but I have tried to remove redundant links. See if it is all right.
  • The tool points out duplicate links to Dutch, moose, Combretum, Sudan, Central African Republic, and Bouba Njida National Park
  • "...with body size ranging from 220–290 cm (87–110 in)." height? length?
Right, that's length!
  • "... consisting of 15-25 members" number ranges should use an endash (–) rather than a hyphen (check throughout for other instances). Same goes for page ranges in the references.
OK, I have replaced the hyphens with endash.
Missed some, but I switched the rest. Sasata (talk) 04:08, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
  • "They do not exhibit angry expressions most of the time" Is this unusual or otherwise notable enough for the lead? Do other antelopes usually look angry?
The males look angry at least during mating, which is not seen in male giant elands.
? Do you mean "not seen in female giant elands"? Is this significant enough to appear in the lead? Sasata (talk) 04:08, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
  • why specify that Boselaphus derbianus is an old name in the taxobox? Aren't they all old, outdated names? Also, please include the authorities and years for the synonyms. The author abbreviation for Gray is incorrect: Gray is botanist/mycologist Samuel Frederick Gray, while J.E. Gray is his zoologist son.
As they still are synonyms, I have kept them. I added their authorities and years. Also changed the Gray link.
  • OK. I wasn't questioning the validity of their presence in the taxobox (I agree, the synonyms should be there), but it seemed odd to overtly mention that it was an old name. Looks fine now. Sasata (talk) 04:08, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
  • "The eland belongs to, hence the suffix -anus, Derby in England." Could you please explain why this species was named after Derby?
Done.
  • "The giant elands are spiral horned antelopes." needs hyphen between "spiral-horned"
Done.
  • "Giant eland are typically"
  • "The color of the male's coat gets darker and darker with the age."
  • "According to zoologist Dr Jakob Bro-Jørgensen" not necessary to include honorifics, according to the MoS
  • possibly useful links: chestnut, rufous, tan, chevron, subspecies
  • "The large ears of giant eland serve as signalling devices." please clarify
  • "These features of the horns the giant eland possesses suggests that it evolved from an ancestor with true display horns." could you clarify "display horn" (or maybe just a link to display (zoology) might suffice)
  • "The eland often uses its horns to break off branches for its food." Source? Also, this sentence would fit better in "Behavior" rather than "Physical description".
  • per WP:CAPTION, captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't have periods
  • the range map needs to inform us what subspecies the colors refer to
  • the taxonomy section is thin; it should at the least mention who gave the species its current name (i.e., who moved it into the genus Taurotragus and when). There seems to be the start of a story about William R. Reade, but it ends abruptly. Did he find a specimen or write about the species? Any further information about the synonyms listed in the taxobox? What happened with the epithets colinis, typicus, cameroonensis, congolanus, and derbii?
  • "But their population is gradually is decreasing." source?
It is the IUCN source, I added it in the later sections, did not feel a need here.
Hmm, since it's repeated later, might be best to just remove it from this section? Sasata (talk) 04:08, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
  • "giant eland herds usually consist of twenty or more animals" doesn't quite align with 15–25 mentioned in the lead
  • "due to their large size, they prove a good meal for the predators." needs capital, and source?
I have made it capital, but there is no particular source. Some have implied that. But I shall use the 'Cavendish' ref for that (a line in the book tells this clearly).
  • "In the rainy season, they browse in herds and feed on grasses." should "browse" be "graze"?
I do not think it should be, here it refers to their travelling in herds (not just for grazing, you see).
  • "Mating mostly occurs in the wet season. Females reach sexual maturity at about 2 years, and males at 4-5 years." numbers less than ten should be spelled out, according to the MoS
Done.
  • any more details on the "elaborately ritualized" courtship?
Sorry, could not find any.
  • "According to Rod East, 15000 Eastern giant elands exist" use a comma as a delimiter in large numbers, per MoS; should specify the year that he made this estimate; same with "But the latest population estimates show that a population of lesser than 200 individuals occur here."
Fixed them.
  • images should not be placed on the left where they push headers to the right
Seen to that
  • What is the "Notes" section for? Is this actually "Further reading"?
Yes, done.

I have seen to all your points. Anymore?--Sainsf <^>Talk all words 05:30, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Sainsf, I have access to some recent literature about this species. If you are interested, I could email you some PDFs for you to use to expand and enhance the coverage. There is no obligation to do this, as the article already meets the "broad coverage" criterion of GA. I was just thinking you might want to try and aim for featured article candidacy, in which case a more thorough literature review is essential. Here are some of the articles I found that look like they'd be worthy additions:

  • Title: Description of a new species of Eimeria Schneider, 1875 (Apicomplexa: Eimeriidae) from the western Derby eland Taurotragus derbianusderbianus Gray (Artiodactyla: Bovidae) in Senegal
  • Author(s): Maca Ondrej
  • Source: SYSTEMATIC PARASITOLOGY Volume: 82 Issue: 2 Pages: 121-123 DOI: 10.1007/s11230-012-9352-0 Published: JUN 2012
  • Title: Population management as a tool in the recovery of the critically endangered Western Derby eland Taurotragus derbianus in Senegal, Africa
  • Author(s): Kolackova Karolina; Hejcmanova Pavla; Antoninova Marketa; et al.
  • Source: WILDLIFE BIOLOGY Volume: 17 Issue: 3 Pages: 299-310 DOI: 10.2981/10-019 Published: SEP 2011
  • Title: Suckling behavior of eland antelopes (Taurotragus spp.) under semi-captive and farm conditions
  • Author(s): Hejcmanova Pavla; Vymyslicka Pavla; Kolackova Karolina; et al.
  • Source: JOURNAL OF ETHOLOGY Volume: 29 Issue: 1 Pages: 161-168 DOI: 10.1007/s10164-010-0241-1 Published: JAN 2011
  • Title: Has the final countdown to wildlife extinction in Northern Central African Republic begun?
  • Author(s): Bouche Philippe; Renaud Pierre-Cyril; Lejeune Philippe; et al.
  • Source: AFRICAN JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY Volume: 48 Issue: 4 Pages: 994-1003 DOI: 10.1111/j.1365-2028.2009.01202.x Published: DEC 2010
  • Title: Diet composition of western Derby eland (Taurotragus derbianus derbianus) in the dry season in a natural and a managed habitat in Senegal using faecal analyses
  • Author(s): Hejcmanova Pavla; Homolka Miloslav; Antoninova Marketa; et al.
  • Source: SOUTH AFRICAN JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE RESEARCH Volume: 40 Issue: 1 Pages: 27-34 DOI: 10.3957/056.040.0105 Published: APR 2010
  • Title: A long-standing Pleistocene refugium in southern Africa and a mosaic of refugia in East Africa: insights from mtDNA and the common eland antelope
  • Author(s): Lorenzen Eline D.; Masembe Charles; Arctander Peter; et al.
  • Source: JOURNAL OF BIOGEOGRAPHY Volume: 37 Issue: 3 Pages: 571-581 DOI: 10.1111/j.1365-2699.2009.02207.x Published: MAR 2010
  • Title: Phylogenomic study of spiral-horned antelope by cross-species chromosome painting
  • Author(s): Rubes Jiri; Kubickova Svatava; Pagacova Eva; et al.
  • Source: CHROMOSOME RESEARCH Volume: 16 Issue: 7 Pages: 935-947 DOI: 10.1007/s10577-008-1250-6 Published: OCT 2008
  • Title: Estimated miminum [minimum] and maximum sustainable expliotation [exploitation] values for Derby eland and other big game in Benoue National Park Cameroon.
  • Author(s): Angwafo Tsi Evaristus; Nji Ajaga; Mbida Mpoame; et al.
  • Source: Nature & Faune Volume: 23 Issue: 1 Pages: 27-31 Published: 2008
  • Title: Hand raising a premature giant eland (Taurotragus derbianus gigas).
  • Author(s): Keeney Jennifer
  • Source: Animal Keepers' Forum Volume: 29 Issue: 6 Pages: 246-250 Published: June 2002
  • Title: Lord Derby's eland.
  • Author(s): Ruggiero R.
  • Source: Swara Volume: 13 Issue: 6 Pages: 10-13 Published: 1990

Once again, there's no obligation to include these, but I'd be happy to help you give the article a shove towards FAC if you're interested. Sasata (talk) 04:48, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Surely, you can mail these, whatever you think can prove significant in the expansion of the article. That would be a great help of yours. Yes, I am interested in making it a FA if possible, but that would be later and I will contact you on the subject. I will fix the few more things a bit later, busy now, first let us have it as a GA!--Sainsf <^>Talk all words 13:39, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I have made use of some of the articles you mentioned here and expanded parts of the article. Check it. And if there are more improvements to be done in it for GA, notify. Again, thanks for your help!--Sainsf <^>Talk all words 04:32, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for making those additions! I think we can make further improvements:
  • the sentence "It was found that chromosomes involved in centric fusions in these species used a complete set of cattle painting probes generated by laser microdissection." will probably leave the average reader wondering what exactly that means. I'll send you the PDF; please check the conclusions, particularly the statements around "Importantly, however, T. oryx and T. derbianus are shown as a recently derived arid group within this clade, suggesting that the ability to survive in extreme arid habitats is a recently derived trait." I think this kind of information is more likely to be understandable, interesting, and useful to the general reader.
  • "Based upon common elands, the study used methods like analysis of mitochondrial DNA control-region fragments from 122 individuals to learn more about the phylogeography, genetic diversity, and demographic history of the species." This sentence tells us about the study, but not really what new information was revealed about the Giant Eland.
  • the final paragraph of "Diet" needs to be reworked: the text follows too closely the wording of the source, and the final conclusion is incorrect:
  • Article: "The conclusions were that in the dry season the eland was a pure browser, consuming grasses in large amounts."
  • Source: "The results indicate that in the dry season the western Derby eland behaves as a pure browser, consuming grasses in negligible amounts." negligible ≠ large
I see, I myself am not so knowledgeable about the subject. I just try using my skills to sum up the information from the sources in the article, may be wrong, but I will put it right. about your first point, really the language is hard to understand. We will see to that. The second point, the source, I think, has not got much to do with Giant eland. So why have it here? What do you think? And the last one, I am working on it.--Sainsf <^>Talk all words 15:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello again! Thanks for all the literature you provided. But I will be expanding the article later. For the time being, can the article become a GA? It will be later about the article's FAC. So first let us focus on this, and have this GA business over. --Sainsf <^>Talk all words 13:49, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

We're working on it! Here's more comments after a fresh readthrough:
  • the lead should mention the two subspecies, and that they have different IUCN conservation statuses
 Done.
  • Now the conservation status is mentioned twice. Sasata (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 Done.
  • the article says that tauros is Greek, and means the same as the Latin taurus, but the cited source does not explicitly state the origin as Greek, and taurus is spelled in the genitive form Tauri. Also, please include the accessdate for web-based sources; check throughout for other instances (p.s., accessdates are not required for print-based source that can be found on the web, like Google Books)
  • "The details were recorded in his privately printed work ..." whose work, Smith-Stanley's or Burke's?
 Done.
  • "The horns are thicker at the ends, and are longer as well as more divergent on males." suggest "Males have horns that are thicker at the ends, longer, and more divergent than those of females." to avoid possible confusion in wording of first.
 Done.
  • the taxonomy section should probably mention that some authors have considered T. derbianus to be conspecific with T. oryx (per here)
 Done.
  • "It is also parasitized by Carmyerius spatiosus, Taenia crocutae and T. hyaennae." could use a few words here to tell us what kind of parasites these are
 Done.
  • "Science author Jonathan Kingdon had thought the giant elands lived only in woodlands of Isoberlinia doka, an African hardwood tree." source?
 Done.
  • "In the past throughout the relatively narrow belt of savanna woodland which extends across West and Central Africa from Senegal to the Nile." incomplete sentence
 Done.
  • "... and mostly survive in Senegal." mostly survive? Not sure what this is trying to say. Are now found mostly in?
 Done.
  • "They are also kept in captivity." source?
 Done.
  • Lead: "The giant eland is mainly solitary"; "Ecology and behavior": "A gregarious species, giant eland herds..." these statements are contradictory.
 Done.
  • "In south Africa, females... " should this be South Africa, or southern Africa?
 Done.
I checked the source, and it says southern Africa (not South Africa). Sasata (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 Done.
  • should try to avoid starting sentences with "But"
 Done.
There's still a few left. Sasata (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 Done.
  • what is "GD"?
 Done.
  • "With more population, they were divided into five herds." They divided themselves, or were divided by humans?
 Done.
  • "... 700 to 800 were found in the Niokolo Koba National Park and the rest in the Faleme River." unless they became aquatic, I'd guess they were found in the region around the Faleme River :)
 Done :)
  • "The Eastern giant eland is also depleting due to the same reasons, and natural causes like continued droughts, competition from domestic animals, having already suffered the rinderpest attacks." grammar needs fixing
 Done.
  • "Its presence is uncertain in Guinea Bissau and Nigeria." source?
 Done.

Only the GD point left - I am myself confused about it. Nothing mentioned in the article too. About accessdates, I do not know how to know the accessdates so well - I do not deal with them often. There are not many web sources, perhaps you could help with that?--Sainsf <^>Talk all words 11:49, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

  • I can't see where in the cited source it supports the statement "The courtship is more elaborately ritualized"
 Done. I removed the phrase- one that it has no proper source, and also it is not much required.
  • Similarly, I don't see how the cited source supports "Delivery usually takes place in the night." or "The mother ingests the afterbirth."
 Done. It was the 'Burton' ref, I just forgot to mention it.
  • chevron (anatomy) links to a tail bone, so it is unclear how this relates to the tan-colored region between the eyes
 Done. Added few words to define 'chevron', as it could not be linked to another page that defined its meaning in the sense it is used here.
  • I suggest moving the range map to the right so it doesn't push in the "Ecology and behavior" header
 Done.
  • the image in the Physical description section could use a more informative caption, maybe a few words about the characteristic horns or facial features, since they are prominent in this picture?
 Done.
  • Caption: "Giant eland is mainly a herbivore." There isn't any indication in the article that the animal is anything but a herbivore, so perhaps "mainly" isn't needed?
 Done. Made it informative, about horns.
  • any reason why the trophy head image is forced to a small size? How about moving the eland in Houston Zoo image up so the two images aren't on top of each other?
 Done. Moved the eland in Houston zoo to the left, increased the trophy head image's size. Looks fine.

I have seen to all your points. Anymore?--Sainsf <^>Talk all words 13:56, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Tititudorancea.com is not a reliable source, as they appear to be an outdated copy of the Wikipedia article
 Done
  • "The name 'giant' is thought to be given to the antelope mainly due to its great size, but it is actually because of its large horns that are thick at the base and divergent.[10]" Although the second half of this sentence is supported by the source, the first half is not really, and uses the weaselly phrase "is thought" The source only says "The name "giant" eland is a bit of a misnomer;" Also, the thick base and divergence is mentioned later on the in horn description, so perhaps it might be better trimmed from here?
 Done I don't think the horns need to be explained here.
  • "a rufous brown color" since rufous is already brown, could we trim this to just "a rufous color"?
 Done
  • I'm wondering if it would be better to replace "more divergent" with the more easily understood "more distantly spaced" or something similar. If not, perhaps a wiktionary link to divergent? What do you think?
 Done Had it replaced.
  • could you please use a more specific page range for the citations to reference #2 (Grubb)
 Done
  • Grubb in MSW says the the common name "Giant eland" only refers to the subspecies gigas; this should be indicated in the article (Do other sources restrict themselves to this usage?)
 Done Mentioned it, and the sources do not say anything about it at all.
  • "The data supports the hypothesis of Pleistocene refugia occurring in east and southern Africa. Based upon common elands, the study used methods like analysis of mitochondrial DNA control-region fragments from 122 individuals to learn more about the phylogeography, genetic diversity, and demographic history of the species." I suggest we replace this with something else from this paper that might be more useful: "The common eland and giant eland have been estimated to have diverged about 1.6 million years ago." It might be worthwhile (for FAC) to get the source of this estimate and cite that directly.
 Done
  • where is the Fathala Reserve?
 Done
  • the Uses section implies that there is a domesticated population in Russia; for FAC it would be good to mention this in the "Populations" section and perhaps try to find a figure for # of domesticated animals
Yes, but it implies, you do not have a real source for the statement.
  • Also for FAC, it would be good to give more details about the poisonous plants and diseases affecting cows to which the giant eland is immune.
Will surely give if I find.

I've seen to all comments, though left the ones for FAC to consider later. -Sainsf <^>Talk all words 13:06, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok Sainsf, I think we're done here. In my opinion, the article now meets the GA criteria:

GA review (see here for criteria)

The article Giant eland passes this review, and has been promoted to good article status. The article is found by the reviewing editor to be deserving of good article status based on the following criteria:

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail: Pass

Thanks for your patience with my slow reviewing! I think the article is well-positioned for a FAC push, if you decide to pursue that. Cheers, Sasata (talk) 19:43, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Which species lives in which biome?[edit]

"Giant elands live in the broad-leafed savanna, woodlands, and glades of central and western Africa, which correspond to the two subspecies.", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_eland#Habitat_and_distribution Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 23:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

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